Raphaël Létourneau, doctoral researcher in political sociology at Freie Universität Berlin, talks about his path as both a First-Gen academic and an immigrant. In this interview, he reflects on the challenges of navigating academia without a family background in higher education, while also building a research career in a new country. He shares personal experiences, highlights common hurdles, and discusses the importance of networks and institutional support for First-Gen and international doctoral researchers.

Audio

Highlights

“Having people that you trust, that you can exchange and having the support, I think it’s the priority number one. And second I would say to ask as many questions as you want because we all feel … I mean many people feel kind of this imposter syndrome, a lot of people in academia it’s a bit like “you fake it till you make it”. They seem to know what are doing and where they’re going but most of the time it’s just confusing for a lot of people. And then having the acceptance that we don’t know everything and just go ahead and ask questions to people will bring a long way, I would say.”

Raphaël Létourneau, First-Gen doctoral researcher

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transcript

Intro

Welcome to the DRS podcast, the podcast for doctoral researchers at Freie Universität Berlin, brought to you by Dahlem Research School. I’m Dr. Marlies Klamt, and I’ll be your host for today’s episode, where we take a closer look at what it means to do a PhD while also building a life in a new country without a strong academic tradition at home. What challenges arise when you’re both an immigrant and one of the first in your family to enter academia at this level? My guest, Raphaël Létourneau, is a doctoral researcher in political sociology at the Cluster of Excellence, SCRIPTS.

Originally from Quebec, Canada, he talks about finding his path into academic life, adjusting to a new system, and the importance of community, not just professional networks. We also talk about how values and activism can shape your approach to research, and how friendships, peer support, and shared experiences have helped to navigate both academic life and living in a new country. If you’re working on your PhD far from home, and you’re the first in your family to take this path, this conversation might resonate.

Interview

Raphaël, to start with, could you briefly introduce yourself, who you are and what your work as a PhD researcher at Freie Universität Berlin looks like?

I’m Raphaël Letourneau. I’m originally from Canada, Quebec, the French part of Canada. I’m 33 years old. I’ve been here in Germany since six years and a half, I would say. And I’m currently doing my PhD at SCRIPTS, which is an excellence cluster, the contestation of the liberal script is the name, which is connected to many universities in Berlin, but mostly to Freie Universität. They have a doctoral school called the Berlin Global Transnational School, something like that. So I’m doing like this PhD that is like basically my own topic while doing this program of having some classes and some credits to do.

What I would like to know is, you said that you’re originally from Canada, could you tell us what brought you to Germany and why you chose to do your doctorate here in Berlin?

Well, this was not directly connected, I would say. I moved here because of a relationship back then. And I kind of got this moment of finishing some job in Canada, starting this love story with someone that was from Poland. So we moved together here and it was kind of a starting from scratch.

So really this kind of immigrant experience of like, I was not coming for a specific job or for studies. And my skills or my experience I had was not worth much when I arrived here. So I was doing little jobs, not connected to my whole university background. And I progressively went back to studies because of COVID.

So I went to do a Master in Sociology, also at Freie Universität. And I thought that would be it, but people encouraged me to go on and to apply for a PhD. So I did. And a year later, I finally got this one at SCRIPTS and decided to go on this adventure.

Congratulations. Love is not the worst reason to move, and you seem to like it if you stayed on in Germany. What has it been like to do your doctorate as an immigrant in Germany? What have been the biggest hurdles so far? You said you’re about a year into it. Have you had any hurdles so far or is everything running smoothly up to now?

I mean, the challenges that are mostly connected to being an immigrant, I feel they started before the PhD. So when I was doing my master, maybe. Of course, not being very fluent in the language is always a barrier to connect also with people and like also networking, I guess, in the field, in the academic field. There’s always quite a few events that you cannot take part of.

There’s a whole also cultural, I guess, aspect of, I got to know how things were running at university in Canada, like in North America, but like how things are made here. You have to learn it and you have to learn it by asking questions a lot because people assume that you all came from the same academic culture, which is not always the case. People know each other. I mean, know some people already, or if you just arrived here, like you have to build also a network in general, like friends and all this informal part. It can be a challenge, I would say.

You’ve already mentioned that there are differences in the academic systems in North America and Germany, and I’m curious, as you also studied at both countries, in Canada and in Germany, how does studying and working in Germany compare to your earlier experience you’ve had in Canada?

I would say that in Canada there is, and I can talk only for kind of my field, I’m doing, I’m in sociology and I did my bachelor in sociology also in Canada. There’s a way of being like kind of informal and some would call friendly, let’s say, that is a different way in Canada. The contact we have with the professors are like a bit different. There was also, at least in sociology, something that like people were very politically active and outspoken about it, I would say, in a way that in Germany, I feel there’s a lot more this approach of we’re doing science and we’re like objective and we’re like taking a distance from like politics and things like that. Sometimes it feels like trying to have a safe distance about certain things. Or the fear that it can affect their professional life. But in Canada, I felt the sociology field was way more involved in the political struggle around them.

That’s an interesting observation and something I wasn’t aware of myself. Thank you very much for sharing that. I would like to talk a bit more about your background. You’re the first in your family to enter academia, which makes you a so-called first-gen academic. In your own words, what does that mean in practice and what kinds of challenges come with it?

In my family, it’s … I would say a challenge is to have people understand what I’m doing is always a challenge. I mean, I had different kinds of reactions. Like there’s a side of my family that is so far from, like nobody went to university, like not talking about a PhD. It was seen a bit as something pretentious to do, I think. Like it was not celebrated, it was more like, why doing all of this?

While on the other side of my family there was more support, like there’s someone that is the master in my family, not a PhD but still knowing a bit what it is like and putting value also on this. But social sciences, sociology is not something that people pick up on what it is already, even when I was doing a bachelor. So like making people understand what it is to do a PhD, which is already complex in itself.

And myself, I’m lost in explaining it sometimes. Like I’m still learning what it is in my first year of doing it. So there is that. Communicating clearly to people around me or like what it is I’m doing in like simple terms. It’s a challenge.

I can imagine. How important is it that your family understands what you’re doing and that they support you also emotionally or that they kind of understand what you’re doing and maybe not like it, but at least give you their support in their way.

Having the support is important, especially in the context of being in another country as well. It’s already hard to have a distance between us, but if it seems that what I’m doing here could appear pointless for them, it would be even harder to justify, I guess, this distance. I mean, it’s … After multiple years being away from Canada and having done different things other than the PhD here, I have enough confidence, I think, to do what I want without needing necessarily the approval. But it’s not the approval so much than the connection that I wish to have. That they understand what I’m doing, since I’m passionate about it, since it’s also connected to my values, what I’m doing. Being able to talk about this is a way to connect in general.

I understand. Now we talked about the reactions of your family. Looking back at your academic path, were there moments when you felt this first-gen background most strongly during your studies or during your PhD?

I think when I just started university at the bachelor level, that’s when I felt it the most. Because that’s when there was a part of my family that was not necessarily trying to understand. It was not like a huge struggle because those that were already supporting me in studies before kept on doing it at every step of the way. But the further I went into it the hardest it was to have this connection and understanding with people that didn’t go through this path.

I feel like starting university was the moment that this connection was more clear and then I guess everybody got used to it that I’m doing something that is quite different and yeah it feels like it is respected now more than it was at the start.

So you’re navigating academia with two perspectives at once, being first-gen, at least at the PhD part, and also an immigrant. Where do you see the biggest challenges that come specifically from this combination, being both first-gen and an immigrant PhD researcher? Or maybe they’re none, that could also be the case.

I think that the challenge is mostly seen with other colleagues here at university in Germany. There’s a lot of people around me at SCRIPTS or connected to it. The majority are German, born in Germany, did all their studies here sometimes, even in Berlin or in a city nearby. They’re very, let’s say, fluent in the academic language and knowing where to go and how to address people.

And the challenge is the challenge that the studies are in themselves. But I have to face all this difficulty that a PhD is for everyone because it’s never simple. But on top of that, I have to deal with the migrant aspect, which is to, like I said earlier, not knowing exactly how things work and having to know the language and integrate progressively. Which, by the way, I should have said that earlier, but I just got my citizenship here a few months ago.

But this was the process of like years of living here. When I had the break between my studies, I did like five months intensive German class, five days a week, three, four hours, homework the next day. So this is something that people that were always here, they don’t have to take their free time to do this step, to have similar chances to the others.

Thank you for sharing that. I think many of our listeners who are immigrants themselves will really recognize themselves in what you just said. What has helped you most to feel more integrated? Was it the language or maybe something else you might want to share with our listeners who are in a similar situation?

There are many things. When I decided to start the Master, that really helped. Even though it was like an English-speaking Master with people from all around the world, I felt, oh, okay, now I’m doing something that I want to do, that is in my field, and I met also Germans here, but I met more people. I started to have more friends through that.

I had some friends and I had little jobs and things like that before, but it really felt like it was a bit just surviving. You get the salary, and you get some company, but either the people or my occupations felt a bit disconnected from who I am and at least my ambitions or where I want to be. So when I started the studies, it felt like I found my world again. So it helped to feel more integrated in the society in general but also later on making more groups of friends and even people not in academia but also and not even like Germans necessarily but like just having more of a steady group of friends that feel like a chosen family really helped to feel at home and to not rely on just the relationships that I have in Canada, which is not super satisfying to have little contact here and there and like on the phone and visiting once a year or maybe less. Having like a more rich social life really helped me to feel integrated and at home.

So besides your chosen family, I really like this term, are there networks, mentors or peer groups that you find particularly valuable?

In the context of a PhD?

Of being an immigrant and being first-gen PhD or both.

The people that I have, like the friends I made from the master and also the other PhD researchers that are at SCRIPTS with me, these exchanges with those people are like very valuable. Especially my friends that I have since the master because I have … I think of one person for example that we started together the master and then now we got to the PhD and we’re both first-gen and we’re like going through this together. We have not only the common PhD experience, but we have also the friendship since a few years, and it really helps not to feel too lost.

When I’m saying a chosen family, I have a group of friends that are … a lot of people come from France, actually, in this group. At least we have this common language, or native language, but also we all have this experience of being migrants here, and even if we’re working in all sorts of different fields, joining together and exchanging is like very helpful to my whole migrant experience to not just feel straight up integrated like in a society but still having this migrant identity and the exchange about this experience and like having the language and all of this.

Looking at universities, from your perspective, are the existing offers and support structures at universities sufficient for first-gen and immigrant doctoral candidates, or do you think there’s still room for improvement?

I would say that I feel there’s a lot that is offered. There is a lot. At least from my perspective of what’s accessible from me at SCRIPTS and the doctoral school. And I’m also having my supervisor that is part of the WZB, the Berlin Social Science Center. So there’s like this whole network and services that are there too that are available for me.

So I feel there’s constantly events or things that I could go at to get support. The thing is … having so many things going on all the time everywhere feels like there’s nothing sometimes because it’s like being lost into all of this and there’s nobody really there to guide you like hey what’s your situation now and the things you should prioritize like events you should go or people you should talk to. And sometimes it’s a lot of work to just understand what all those things are, where they are, how you can participate and what would be valuable or what would be a bit a waste of time. So sometimes I feel the confusion or the lack of support is not that the support doesn’t exist, it’s just to find your way in this labyrinth of possibilities.

Do you think there could be a structure, an institution, a person who could give you that kind of advice? Or do you think, well, it’s something you have to find out yourself, you have to go to an event in order to see or to a support group to see if that actually helps you and works for you or not?

That’s kind of funny because I feel they do exist, like the Dahlem Research School has these kinds of things, I feel. And even right there at my doctoral school, there’s people that can guide somehow. But that’s a tricky question because I don’t have clear recommendation because it’s not that I feel it’s not there or I don’t even know they’re there. It’s the fact that there’s so much and it’s hard to learn how to split time between your work on your thesis or you try to get to know the other researchers in the field. You want to get feedback from them. You want to be part of events. You want to be seen out there. At the same time, you still want to work on your project.

And okay, there’s maybe other formation that help you do that. But it’s a whole time management and … so much as possible but you have to set yourself clear goals of what you expect from the PhD experience too, because it could be so much that you’d never have time to sit in front of it.

Yeah, definitely. I completely understand that time is a limited resource. And also in my experience, it’s one of the hardest thing you have to learn to do during your PhD to make room for it. And at the same time, to decide what you’re going to prioritize and what will not be part of the plan, at least for now.

I was just about to add a little thing. I got also this year in a situation that I couldn’t work for multiple months. I was helping out someone for medical reasons. And this brought this question even more at the forefront of how to use my time and what to prioritize during the time of the PhD.

Because I got a bit late on certain things. It was kind of shown that over those three years or maybe more, you can put your thesis aside a bit, you can go sample a bit of everything. And now that I didn’t have time to be easy and simple a bit of everything, I have to catch up on things. But catching up on things also means that I have to be even more clear about my goals and so that it has a layer of complexity I would say.

At least that’s a good learning, I guess, you took out of this not-so-nice reason of having to pause for several months due to medical reasons. Before we close, I’d like to briefly touch on how your academic work and your activism connect to these experiences of being first-gen and an immigrant. You’ve worked on social inequalities in your research, and you’ve also been active in addressing inequalities in higher education. In your academic work, you focus on political sociology, on inequalities and discrimination and social movements. Do you see links between these research perspectives and your own experience as a first-gen immigrant in academia?

I guess so, indirectly, because as you pointed out, my work and the research I’ve done in academia or even as research assistant with different professors before, work in NGOs, but I also was quite a part of the student movement in Canada as well. All those things for me are connected because like I always said that it’s like I’m either an activist on the street or in the books, but either like I’m researching or I’m directly acting to fight inequalities, but this is always connected. And of course, fighting inequality in the large sense also means to have better opportunities, more equality for everyone. If people are having struggles as migrants or as being new in the academic world, I wish everyone can have the same opportunities and the support they need to not be behind everyone else. So yeah, I would say this is somehow connected on the larger perspective.

That’s a really important point. Thanks for highlighting it. I can understand that everything is connected in the end. When we look at the activism part, because I’ve done some research on you and I’ve seen that you’ve also been outspoken in the past about inequalities in higher education. How does that shape maybe not only how you approach your PhD project, but also how you act within the German academic system right now?

You found some articles about the university speech?

I found a video, yes, and fortunately also a written transcript which I could translate.

It’s nice that you mentioned that because it was kind of something that happened that put a lot of light on me back then when I did that, in the academic world, but also outside. It really boosted my activism, too. And it felt kind of weird somehow to arrive in Germany and not having all this network of activists that this brought to me. And I felt I want to keep having the same level of impact in my surrounding and in the institutions, I’m working in or society in general, but now I’m nobody here. I cannot just do something similar.

I would say I don’t have an approach that is very career-driven. So this is probably what differentiates me from many other colleagues that I really care for the research I do and the contribution and the message we get out there, like the collective impact of my work and our work, more than these individual opportunities it will bring for me for work in the future. So this surely changes a lot the way I’m interacting with people and there’s certain parts of academia that can be hard for me like the whole networking and a bit selling yourself to the crowd to the others and like this is something I’m not that comfortable in because this is very individual. And for me, being a researcher is not an end in itself. So it’s a mean that I have right now to have an impact, and this is what I’m putting forward the most.

Raphaël, is there any important point that I have missed in our interview, anything we haven’t talked about today, where you said, oh, I definitely want to talk about this topic? Or do you think the most interesting points are covered?

I mean, we touched a lot of different things. Maybe for sure, when we talk about being a migrant and first-gen … Something I’d like to point out is also that my experience is kind of difficult, but coming from quite of a privileged background at the same time, you know, like I’m from Canada, I’m white, there’s a lot of things that are probably a lot more complicated for people coming from other backgrounds. And it’s not to diminish people that have a similar one to me. It shows how much we need to, I guess, improve for everyone and also, like, adapt to very different situations. I guess it’s the statement I would make.

Yeah, thanks for pointing that out. I think it’s very important to highlight that different immigrant experiences can be very different, and some come with more privileges than others. Let’s finish with some advice and encouragement for those who might be in a similar situation as you are. If a first-gen or immigrant doctoral student listening right now is struggling, what would you recommend as maybe a first step towards building more confidence, more belonging in academia, to feeling more integrated maybe as well?

I would really put the priority on connecting with people. This is mostly like making friends. I’m not saying contact in the sense of just networking, but I mean like having genuine friendship and connection with people, because this is going to be like an emotional journey. It’s probably a lot of challenge from just the migrant background.

And we’re going to feel lost in this whole institutions of university and research. So having people that you trust, that you can exchange and having the support, I think it’s the priority number one. And second I would say to ask as many questions as you want because we all feel … I mean many people feel kind of this imposter syndrome, a lot of people in academia it’s a bit like “you fake it till you make it”. They seem to know what are doing and where they’re going but most of the time it’s just confusing for a lot of people. And then having the acceptance that we don’t know everything and just go ahead and ask questions to people will bring a long way, I would say.

I think asking questions is a great thing to do. I think it’s a very empowering advice. Thank you, Raphaël. Thank you also very much for sharing your journey and your perspectives with us today. I found it really valuable to hear how you combine the first-gen and the immigrant experience in your own story. And I’m sure many listeners will take inspiration from that.

Thank you very much. It was a pleasure to exchange with you.

Outro

You’ve been listening to an interview with Raphaël Létourneau, a thoughtful and personal reflection on doing a PhD while living in a new country and entering academia without much family experience to fall back on. What stayed with me was how clearly Raphael described the invisible work that comes with this path, figuring out how things work, building trust, and creating your own sense of belonging, both socially and academically. His story is a reminder that the PhD journey isn’t just about research. It’s also about orientation, connection, and the courage to ask questions, even when everyone else seems to already know the rules.

If you’d like to hear more stories and perspectives on doing a doctorate under different circumstances, visit the DRS Podcast website for more episodes. I’m Dr. Marlies Klamt for the DRS Podcast. Thanks for listening and until next time.

This interview was conducted from our trainer and co-host of our podcast Dr. Marlies Klamt.